Logical proof for the existence of God? Please read ALL, if you disagree with the premise push on through?
Question by †.†.†: Logical proof for the existence of God? Please read ALL, if you disagree with the premise push on through?
Let’s pose the following, very scientific question, and make simple observations: What of that which is internal of any system in the observable universe has not come from an external source? For example: of everything internal of you, a rock, the world, the solar system, the galaxy, possibly the universe, what has not come from a source outside of itself? Inherently you came from your parents, the rock was formed in the world, the world with the solar system, the solar system in the universe, and the universe in? Physical quantities or existences need external sources to exist. Now, if the original Source cannot be found directly internal of any physical system in the known universe it must then by process of elimination be external, which all sources are, and non-physical. Well what of God, where did He (She… God transcends gender) come from?
God (the Source) by definition is outside of our range of physical observation as an external and non-physical or metaphysical being. However, the physical universe is observable, but, to induce, assume, and then apply the assumed physical properties to a metaphysical existence, unless those properties are made evident, is illogical. It’s the equivalent of claiming because we have sat in one chair we have sat in them all or to say we can view the earth from space before we have an actual vehicle in which to do so. This is not to say a means of observation cannot be created or to eliminate induction. Nor to say the Source is un-testable or its presence unobservable. It is simply to say properties in the natural physical universe cannot be applied directly to God unless God makes those properties evidently applicable. You ask, which God, or what about pink unicorns, flying spaghetti monsters, or orbital teapots, are they not just as feasible as God(s)?
Now we have to define God and dismiss opposing any illogical entities according to the former. If all things originated with the Source we would include all knowledge, authority, power, good, possibly evil, and quite literally everything. Ergo, we can conclude, God is all knowing and all powerful. We make this conclusion because power, knowledge, and authority go through a process of diffusion moving from states of higher concentration to lower concentration. That being understood we can conclude the Source is active and present throughout the universe as the pursuit of knowledge is active in nature. We can also conclude it is active and present as to supply power to all subsets. By that I mean; a building if not actively connected to a power grid is rendered inoperable (this is excluding backup generators however the same principle applies). This of course excludes the possibility of a self sustaining universe which according to our current knowledge of thermodynamics is improbable and technically impossible. (Side note: if the exclusion of particular governing principles (thermodynamics, Newtonian physics, quantum physics) or the addition of unobservable qualities/quantities (gravitons, dark matter, dark energy) are included in a model without objective, consistent mathematical proof the possibilities are infinite. This of course has its own logical fallacies.) Excluding those models as it would defy our understanding of the universe in its entirety we can in fact logically conclude the existence of a “Prime Source”. If God is ever-present and all powerful why doesn’t he stop evil? Furthermore, if everything came from God… did he create evil?
@The Incorrect Atheist
You are correct, Natural laws as we understand then is postulated to be irrelevant and inoperable at and before the big bang! This is why it is illogical to impose such rules on our Creator! It would by process of elimination require a Supernatural being create such a surge of unnatural forces as to defy the governing principles of the universe.
As such Christ could walk on water 🙂
@TechWiz
2 Analogies are used to incorporate tangible physical objects to illustrate the point! They are very calculated and their interpretation is limited to their use!
@The Incorrect Atheist
I am sorry for my response it probably sounds like I’m drunk.
Best answer:
Answer by punch
Your question? The pursuit of knowledge is active in nature? Wow, that’s why I saw those lions in the library the other day. Must of been pursuing knowledge instead of zebra’s.
What do you think? Answer below!
2 Responses to Logical proof for the existence of God? Please read ALL, if you disagree with the premise push on through?
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No. This is not logical proof of God. This is nonsense. It’s a load of BS. The “argument” makes all kinds of analogies. Here’s a tip for you: It is possible to come to ANY conclusion via analogies. So, if you’re looking for the truth, ALWAYS avoid them. Analogies are dangerous beasts.
Edit: The analogies you use are not simply “examples”. They are the whole foundation of your false argument. You claim everything has a source. The fact of the matter is, physics definitively tells us that NOTHING has a source. Matter/energy CANNOT be created or destroyed. Speculating further is completely meaningless, as it is beyond the laws of physics. You can’t say anything about the cause of matter and energy because “cause” REQUIRES matter and energy.
You also use the analogy “However, the physical universe is observable, but, to induce, assume, and then apply the assumed physical properties to a metaphysical existence, unless those properties are made evident, is illogical. It’s the equivalent of claiming because we have sat in one chair we have sat in them all or to say we can view the earth from space before we have an actual vehicle in which to do so.”
No, it’s not the “equivalent” of anything. It’s complete BS.
Then you later on use the analogy “By that I mean; a building if not actively connected to a power grid is rendered inoperable (this is excluding backup generators however the same principle applies).”
Your “analogies” in combination with your inaccuracies and clear biases towards Judeo-Christian beliefs makes your argument invalid.
The “proof” is so wrong that it is fractally wrong (look it up, because that is EXACTLY what you are).
Furthermore, this is not a logical proof. Let me give you an example of logic:
Premise A, A=>~B, ~C=>~B
Show C
1. A (Premise)
2. A=>~B (Premise)
3. ~B (Modus ponens, 1&2)
4. ~C=>B (Premise)
5. ~(~C) (Modus tollens, 3&4)
6. C (Double negative elimination)
Q.E.D.
That is a logical proof.
TL;DR.
You didn’t really clarify how an infinite universe isn’t possible. Considering our knowledge stops at the Plank Time after the Big Bang, and physics simply does not make sense at that point, we can’t really say. How an infinite expanding and contracting universe makes sense because the evidence exists to suggest that kind of thing. However, there is no reason to suspect an outside force which exists outside of logic, time, evidence, and reason, exists. You’ve literally thought something into existence.
Regardless, none of this really matters, because the very definition of the God you created is logically inconsistent, and at several points, its features are mutually exclusive. Going ever further, there is no evidence to suggest this god of yours had any effect past the big bang, which pretty much means that all religion that worships this creator is absolutely meaningless.
Further more, it is pure speculation on your part that this god must be all powerful in order to create the universe. Something of such immense power is less plausible than several beings of lesser power.
Where do you want to go with the argument? That a logically impossible deity(s) of mutually exclusive attributes exists outside of our capability to study and more so outside of our physical world (which basically means it has no effect on our lives) some how cares that we all worship it and don’t let them gays marry? Or do we just accept that something of such grand immensity that has no bearing on our lives and we have no way of studying, likely doesn’t even exist but is just a creation of mankind imagination to explain the unexplainable in a time where knowledge of the world came from subjective perception, and subjective perception is notoriously flawed.