Question by Ardi Pithecus ™: 2 days ago I asked a Q about spirituality using drugs. No one in Psychology answered it. It this because?
Psychology doesn’t care about the spirituality of their patients, or of how they achieve a connection or reconnection to their spirit?
(Or was it because of the use of the word “philosophy” that no one answered? After all, psychology uses philosophy, specifically the metaphysical beliefs that cause the states-of-mind of their patients, and the epistemology that got them into their psychological mental states to begin with.)
Here was my original question, which got many answers in 2 other forums:
The “soul” and spiritualism has always been a part of philosophy, but what do you think about using drugs to explore “spiritualism”? This is no joke–John Hopkins Medical Center WANTS people who will take mind altering drugs.
http://www.bpru.org/spiritual-practice/
Jai–I should not have presumed all were “patients”. I know there are other reasons for psychology other than to have “patients”.
Best answer:
Answer by Jai
More likely it was because lots of questions don’t get answered. This is also a question that touches on many different subjects not just psych. And lastly, don’t assume that “psychology” has patients—I’m a social psychologist. I study prejudice. I don’t see patients.
From my mish-mash of experience with a) studying, among other things, “faithism”, b) a class on psychology and religion, c) studying deeply held beliefs, and d) my own spiritual beliefs:
Far be it from me to suggest that any path to the divine is any less valid than any other, but I generally view those who wish to participate in drug-induced spiritualism with some measure of respectful doubt. It is often used as an excuse for those who wish to use illegal drugs–this is not the fault of the religious practice, but of human beings who abuse the practice. Those who truly practice the entire religion are much fewer and far between than many would guess. To those few, I give my genuine respect: it is a difficult road, fraught with faithist discrimination, and sticking to it despite the abuses it suffers from fakers and naysayers is admirable.
My own faith suggests that the divine wants to be known and would not create beings who cannot know divinity without external helpers like drugs. I believe in a divinity that has given us all that is necessary within ourselves. However, I at no point deny that divinity may be knowable through drug-induced states. In fact this may be “the easy way” to divinity. Certainly the research requires a way to know divinity through whatever method may be available…perhaps this is more practical, research-wise, than finding a large enough group who truly experience divinity without drugs. The only downside here being you need to be able to prove a divine experience….
I suppose they could examine the effects of more accepted paths to divinity and compare them to drug-induced states… But even that is a difficult sell in academia…
Give your answer to this question below!
I read your question, and did not answer it. (Apology)
As with a previous answerer, I was sceptical because using drugs to explore spiritualism sounds like an excuse to do drugs. You did not provide enough background to your question to convince me that you are serious or that this is an “above board” study. My apology for being prejudiced.
I do believe there can be some valuable insight. E.g. I have read somewhere that old rock paintings are spiritual (not a reflection of reality) and that their forms often indicate hallucinations, and that some “forms” or visions of hallucinations are common. (or Something like that).
However, I also think that “spirituality” today, in terms of western thought and philosophy, is something different to eating wild mushrooms and experiencing “god”.
I am not saying that it is not a valid study, what I am saying is that I cannot really see the relation to arguments in philosophy today related to e.g. the soul.
Take for instance the classical text by Descartes, considered as the “Father of Modern Philosophy”,
and studied by many philosophers (“I think, therefore I am”, and reflections on the soul). What contribution or connection can this study make to such thought ? (Without appearing forced?).
I think it is better related to the discipline of Medicine, although it does touch on other disciplines, e.g. psychology.
hi ardi,
my spirituality is more marked that that of those around me and i have taken far more psychoactive drugs in my life than those around me.
I am sure there is a connection between the two.
I have gained some transcendental insights. I am aware there is something so good it dwarfs the quality of a man but while aware of it am unaware if i am it’s source and thus have a natural component that the word supernatural seems a better description of or it’s source is external to me and it merely affects me. I cannot disclude either and that i why i claim to be a spiritual atheist.i am aware of the social function of religion and intuit that all religious kerfuffle has endured and changed not because of it’s basis in fact but because of the quality of the social patterns it lays down and their incredible usefulness in forming better and more functional societies. This leaves me scoffing at literal belief in ‘holy books’ but accepting the idea of essential human spirituality. Given the capacity i experienced exceeds known requirements this may be an essential connection to more than just this environment but to all possible environments although in other environments the container ( body ) that carries the potential to exhibit or be affected by it would not be described as ‘human’ as a different environment would foster different species developing.
I have seen places that cannot spatially exist and processed the information relating to their construction without problem (with a great deal novelty, admittedly) but perfectly and without contradiction despite it contradicting the physical laws of the known universe . It seems must be an innate unawakened ( or as yet unneeded) capacity and i assume therefore human perception can key into perceptual faculties we here in this 4-dimensional universe may never need. i intuit that it cannot be discluded therefore that the general notion of string theory may not be too far form the truth – i think we have the capacity to exist and thrive in universes with more of the strings intersecting in them than this universe, we have a higher capacity than this universe can require us to. or perhaps it is that this universe can change and all i see is the seed crystal for what will be a accepted and standard capacity of humanity once it becomes ‘ubermensch’ and what i see is an integral sub-part of interconnected developing universe
perhaps big bangs are strings being added or removed and ‘ubernmensch’ will not exist within this ‘inter-bang’ iteration of the universe.i wish i had more than a childish grasp of the knowledge we already have so I could narrow my wild guesses.
is very interesting i cannot re-visualise impossibilities i have seen – i do not ( at this very moment ) have the mental capacity i can allude to what i am describing but not actually describe it ( describing that which cannot exist in using the language that has developed to describe only this universe is impossible) .
I’m not special so this indicates all of our accepted selves are pale shadows of what we can be.
perhaps like stem cells in a developing foetus that can become any organ or any part of the developed baby there may be stem life a potential for life that can take any form it requires to create a quality presence in any given universal environment.
“If the doors of perception were cleansed everything would appear to man as it is, infinite. For man has closed himself up, till he sees all things through narrow chinks of his cavern.”- William Blake
I highly doubt many philosophers are paying attention to words like these though it seems theres been a slight shift in our awareness.
Quite generally people respond better to words like these “they say let there be no more war, but straight away at the word, along the Mediterranean shore, the call to arms is heard” – Robert Frost Greece rise triumphant!