Question by Silver Deer: Why can’t girls go on a vision quest?
I read somewhere that in native American culture, boys often go on vision quests, but the girls are not eligible. Is this true, and if so, why? Thanks 🙂
I read it here: http://www.religioustolerance.org/nataspir3.htm scroll down to “vision quest”
Best answer:
Answer by Nic4
Religions and traditional rites are patriarchal, and needlessly exclude women from culturally significant activities.
This is often excused by stating that women are naturally closer to God, or the earth, or some other spiritual center of power – usually via their capacity to produce smaller humans – but it is essentially tantamount to excluding women from higher education in religious terms.
EDIT: I think religious and spiritual rituals are awesome, despite the fact I don’t happen to believe in their purpose. Nonetheless, I’m not trying to make trouble here, I’m just stating a well-established fact about traditional rites. You say that participants play a “role”, but the fact remains that those roles are strictly gendered, and this is prejudicial against an individual’s particular attributes. I do not, under any circumstances, advocate changing or forcing change upon voluntary rituals but I think it is nonetheless wise to understand them objectively before one participates.
Give your answer to this question below!
My understanding, from he different tribal members I’ve met, it depends. Ask a Cheyenne woman, she will tell you it is because women are more grounded and don’t need the spirits to tell them their purpose in life.
In fact, a lot of women from the different tribes view men as more in need of the spiritual guidance and not women, because the women are more in tune with the earth and its cycles, as part of and experiencing the cycles in themselves.
Men not so much.
This is what I’ve been told – can’t say it’s an “official” answer though.
I would say, even though alot of folks do not like this view, it may still be valid. The gender role did not allow so?
Think of it- Men and boys had different responsibilities for a reason. Women and girls had their own roles to fulfill, thats just the way it is. Attention is needed for provider and another for homemaker (responsibilities of the home and cooking and such)
Just my opinion.
This isn’t necessarily true.
Men/boys regularly vision quest, starting around 10 or 11. But girls sometimes vision quest; just not as often.
Rites of passage are often tied to the person’s role – not their gender, necessarily. And they aren’t rigid – boys can only do this, girls can only do this. It may not be necessary for men to participate in a certain rite, just as it may not be necessary for women to participate.
— I also think it is a very “western” or “modern” view that things of this nature are *exclusionary* in nature. If a woman (or man) doesn’t participate in a certain rite people think that it is somehow sexist in nature and that the other gender is being unfairly discriminated against. There is balance in nature, balance in the world and everyone has certain roles – certain strengths. Rites and ritual highlight those strengths. They aren’t exclusionary in any sense. And the men and women who participate (or don’t participate) honor their roles and the roles of their counterparts.
One of many reasons that outsiders are not invited into this world. They walk in with eyes closed and minds made up.
The native America religious and spiritual traditions were just as hypocritical and discriminatory as all the rest.
so because someone says its true means its true? you have actual native people here who still live the culture and beliefs saying its not a true thing and that women can go on vision quests but there’s this website or book….
have to agree with whitney on this one..closed minds are not very welcome anywhere. btw we don’t all have vision quests and we are DEFINITELY not a patriarchal culture so stuff that.
ADDED: the biggest problem with anthropologists or non native people looking to explain our culture is that they put their own values and biases into what they see. so for example if women don’t do something traditionally, these outsiders automatically assume its because we see women as inferior because thats how their own culture has looked at women for centuries. that is not so with us. be careful who you listen to or get your facts from.
It’s strictly a cultural perception, and is in no way based on “ability”.
I know several women who have in fact gone on vision quest.
we don’t really have vision quests in my tribal culture..we have Spirit quests (long drawn out explination, sorry, but I don’t htink I can cram 22 years of culture into a paragraph). Some of those “quests” don’t need to be done by women as we are more spiritually intune/aware. Thre are many reasons however, that a woman or girl goes on a “quest” lke when she starts her period, or is looking for additional guidence on a perticular issue, or perhaps is having a hard time letting go of a dead loved one, etc… on top of these, Some of the “quests” usually done by men are to seek Humility, Grace, Selflessness, and more that there are no english translations for, but it means to not be competitive to the point that your mind is not clear (bad translation, sorry) and a few other things. I’m not saying a woman does not ever have to try to learn these things on her own, but it is rare that an elder will single out a female and send them out to learn these things. Hard to explain a lot of this, I am sure it looks like gibberish on here…but it all boils down to Women being a more Spiritual Creature then Men.