Question by Elric: Why can’t some people let you have spirituality and a fully functioning brain?
Seriously? Some if not most atheists think if you’re spiritual there’s something deeply wrong with your mind, as if you have a delusion of epic proportions merely because you believe something that you’ve thought about rationally. And then there are those loony religious folk out there who believe that science is a tool wielded by Satan. I’m tired of both extreme anti-religious and crazy religious people. Science is used to better man kind and advance our culture, but there are some things that science will never be able to explain, not even metaphysics, and you almost have to be spiritual to study metaphysics.
What do you think?
Why can’t some “accept” that you have both spirituality and a fully functioning brain?
Spirituality is whatever you want to call it, just not religion!
Best answer:
Answer by David
Because the kooks you hear of in the world happen to be deeply religious. No atheists blowing up things. Naa, actually, its the fundamentalists that get to me, just being religious is ok.
Give your answer to this question below!
Because Satan is the only truth.
If you’re spiritual, then you believe in an entity other than Satan.
So you can’t.
Humor is the only combatant in my opinion. People need to be less stressful about these things and laugh more. It would make life magnitudes more enjoyable.
Some if not most atheists think if you’re spiritual there’s something deeply wrong with your mind
Well, I don’t. I get a lot of spiritual feelings. What is weird is when people are dead-set on these coming from a supernatural borg cube existing outside the universe.
What’s wrong with a borg cube? Does anyone really know any better?
God has blinded them from his spirit, they are carnally minded not knowing the greater weightier things of God read bible verse 2 Cor 4:4
They are NOT mutually exclusive.
I think “spiritual” is not a great word simply because it has the word “spirit” in it, and that’s a tough one for many skeptics to swallow even if the usage of the word in the common parlance has a meaning more akin to inexplicable awe.
“Mystical” is better, though it can have similar connotations. At least the connotations are not etymological (spirit vs. mystery). In any case, Sam Harris would agree with you. He argues for the value of skeptical inquiry into various modes of consciousness and perception that alter our sense of reality that we might call “spiritual” and find enlightening without the religious baggage. Apologies to Sam if I poorly paraphrase… I don’t have “The End of Faith” in front of me at the moment.
Edit: I went to get the book. Here’s an excerpt:
“For millennia, contemplatives have known that ordinary people can divest themselves of the feeling that they call “I” and thereby relinquish the sense that they are separate from the rest of the universe. This phenomenon, which has been reported by practitioners in many spiritual traditions, is supported by a wealth of evidence — neuroscientific, philosophical, and introspective. Such experiences are “spiritual” or “mystical”, for want of better words, in that they are relatively rare (unnecessarily so), significant (in that they uncover genuine facts about the world), and personally transformative.”
I do not think it is up to others to “let me” anything.
Not here.
Not ever.
I know where I stand, and I’m not going to sink to their level, or to anyone else’s.
I set my own standard.
Spirituality and religion are not the same thing. And you do not have to be spriritual to study metaphysics, you just have to accept quantum theory and understand Einstein’s theory of special relativity (not general relativity).
Generally, the reason that there is an epic amount of trolling on these forums is that most of the religious people who post here (not all) have not had a decent education or rejected logical explanations (I’m not trying to be mean, it’s just how it is). Christianity is not the subject of debate here on these forums, it is creationism, which all atheists know makes no sense (I suspect some Christian people will as well).
I’m catholic, religious and have a full functioning brain. I don’t let others take that from me. Especially here.
The real problem is that A LOT (not all) of religious people aren’t really that open-minded to other ways of thinking – this holds true for Atheists, too. Each group thinks the other is wrong, so it’s hard to find people who are open enough to understand that everyone believes something different and no one person has the right answers.
I, personally, think that religion needs to be put on the back burner for a while, so we can act more humanely towards our fellow humans. Too many times is religion used to suppress people who don’t believe in God or have different values. Enough is enough of this cruel mindset.
I will say, however, that just because science can’t explain something now doesn’t mean that it can’t be explained. You also need to consider that most science needs to have a large sum of money backing it for it to even go anywhere…maybe someone hasn’t been interested enough in the topic you are referencing to actually go out and find an answer. I mean, heck, they just figured out a new way to cure breast cancer in the UK – more important than solving some sort of religion vs. science debate, yeah?
As a true Christian I agree with you on both aspects.
So, wait, people are forcibly stopping you from doing that?
Or did you get the meaning of “let” wrong?
You can believe whatever you want to. I can’t control what you believe, and I can’t “let” you do or not do anything. Neither can anybody else.
However, I see no problem pointing out to you that a belief in supernatural beings when there is no evidence of any kind to show they’re real (and there isn’t) is *not* “rational” as you claim. I’m sure you have reasons for believing — good for you. But they’re not rational reasons. It’s the dishonesty people show by insisting their belief is rational (hint: no belief is ever rational, even if what you “believe” is true), or that there actually is evidence of their particular god, that rankles so many people. You want to believe? Great, believe. Nobody cares. But if you around making dishonest claims about your beliefs, people are going to call you on it.
Your final sentences make the point very nicely: there is no evidence of any kind that there is anything real to “metaphysics.” Yet you treat it as if it’s a “rational” field of study — it’s not. Rational people are going to point that out to you over and over again if you insist it *is* rational.
“…there are some things science will never be able to explain…”
So, you know everything that will ever happen in the future, do you? Prove it.
You and I both know you have no such knowledge…so a claim like that is worthless and patently false. You cannot know what science will or won’t be able to explain in the future, and claiming you do know is a lie. Or ignorance. One of the two.
Be honest and enjoy your beliefs and nobody will care. Be dishonest and make provably false claims, and people are going to call you on it.
Peace.
It’s a sad fact, that most people put spirituality and religion all in the same bag, when there are many differences between the two. There are, unfortunately fanatics on all sides, and I agree, it’s getting way old. I just wish people would live and let live, let everyone believe what they want, and just back the he** off. If it weren’t for science, we wouldn’t be on this site. No cell phones, no HDTV, no car to get us to wherever….Science has given us so much more knowledge on life and the world around us, and those same people who like to condemn it, sure would be up s*** creek without a paddle if it were not for the scientists taking the steps they do, questioning our world and how it works.
“you almost have to be spiritual to study metaphysics.”
While I agree with you on this to a certain point, you’re assuming that metaphysics actually exists here. Many atheists deny that there is anything metaphysical.
As for your main question, since no one knows everything, there isn’t a single belief system that can cover everything. Therefore, there’s going to be some holes in every belief system. What I think many skeptics do is simply concentrate on the holes in other belief systems and ignore the ones in their own. As a Christian, I haven’t fully answered all the questions I have about Christianity. However, I believe the questions that I have about Christianity are less fundamental and important than the questions I have about other belief systems. That is why I find it rational to believe in Christianity despite the many objections brought against it.
It will take time, but every knee shall bow just like it says in the book. ><> :).
I agree it sucks that we have to deal with hatred that derives from mis-communication and misinterpretation. I wish you patience and the will to remain humble with your understandings. I get emails about once a week from atheists and when I give them the good news they get offended and assume that I’m preaching or trolling as they call it. I’m not even any religion in particular I just believe in and relate with God. One guy said it was too tiresome to read my preaching especially cuz it was all in caps but it was just my cheap keyboard that both shift buttons get stuck sometimes… I have our whole conversation copied cause I thought it was very interesting. He insisted that not believing in God was sane and promoted a happy life and we all know that’s a front because most people that deny God become self centered and easily irritable, not to mention empty and unhappy inside. You can see it written all over. He ended up blocking me. I’m surprised he was a top contributor I thought all top contributors have some sense of maturity and are able to have intelligent conversations. I guess any atheist feels that belief in God threatens them in some way.
You can’t force a horse to drink but you can run em around and get em thirsty. that’s why patience comes in handy.
Crazy religious people take up most of the attention, and make people like you look non existence. As an Atheist I could not care less about what makes you feel spirituality happy. Like you don’t care about what makes me feel fulfilled. What I have a problem with is the right wing nut jobs that go nuts and prevent gay people marriage and kill people that have a different point of view. They make you all look bad.
It is just an easy excuse that they have jumped on. It is like when I was working as a Christian, reaching out to both Protestants and Roman Catholics in Northern Ireland during the sectarian violence.
The thing I was accused of time and time again from both sides of the divide was, “Oh, you’re english, what do you know?” – It seems some people just like to put you in a box, that way it is easier to ignore your claims, instead of listening to what you say and actually looking at your reasoning.. It stems from a from a mindset of willful ignorance.
You don’t have to be spiritual to study metaphysics, that is absolute rubbish. In fact, the two terms are pretty much contradictory. Metaphysics is the study of that which exists, spirituality involves that which transcends existence. Religion and ‘spirituality’ both deny the primacy of existence, which means that they deny reality. No good can ever come of that.
“Are you in a universe which is ruled by natural laws and, therefore, is stable, firm, absolute—and knowable? Or are you in an incomprehensible chaos, a realm of inexplicable miracles, an unpredictable, unknowable flux, which your mind is impotent to grasp? Are the things you see around you real—or are they only an illusion? Do they exist independent of any observer—or are they created by the observer? Are they the object or the subject of man’s consciousness? Are they what they are—or can they be changed by a mere act of your consciousness, such as a wish?
The nature of your actions—and of your ambition—will be different, according to which set of answers you come to accept. These answers are the province of metaphysics—the study of existence as such or, in Aristotle’s words, of “being qua being”—the basic branch of philosophy.”
– Philosophy: Who Needs It? –
http://www.importanceofphilosophy.com/Metaphysics_RealityIsAbsolute.html